CRM Conversion: A View From The Inside

Marketing's role is critical. According to Navarre, it's crucial for the marketing department to play a major role in CRM conversion. “You have to determine upfront who's going to take care of this database. You need someone to get the information in the right places, with a logic that's structured.”

You need a “champion” to keep everything on track. As the voice of experience, Navarre says, “You have to have a smart, logical, person on your staff who will get the file system right the first time. You can't create things and plan to change them retroactively. That's just a nightmare.”

Review, review, then review again. Developing the CRM architecture was “so important and there are so many places you could mess up,” says Navarre. It's “critical to get the information in right the first time. When we built architecture and logic for our folder systems and collected data and determined how it was going to be dispersed, we screwed up on a lot. In retrospect I know how important this is. You need to have foresight.”

“Review, review, then review again. Then bring in a secretary, a paralegal, even an outside person. Show them your logic and see how they would organize the information. Have four, five or six people look at it. You can't go back, and the more you build on, the more unwieldy [the CRM system] gets. It's an architecture – kind of like a family structure. You want to make sure the patriarch and matriarch are in place so that you can build to the grandchildren level,” says Navarre.

Don't plan on getting complete acceptance initially. At K&C, the CRM system actually started out as a mailing list and marketing database. The firm eventually made everyone put their personal contact lists on the system. But, says Navarre, “You have to be a bit flexible. Some attorneys will insist on keeping their private contacts private. We allowed for that. But, for the last year [I was there], more and more attorneys 'bought in,' and put most of their contacts in the database.”

Avoid the garbage in/garbage out syndrome. Clean data is critical to any conversion. Dupes (duplications) can be a real problem. Before conversion, says Navarre, “We bribed the secretaries to go into their attorney's contact files and make sure the data was in the correct fields.” She offered four free movie tickets to each secretary who could show that this work had been completed.

Once the secretaries pre-cleaned the contact files, the firm's database administrator exported them as comma-delimited files into Excel, and then eyeballed them. He then loaded the files into the main database and ran an additional dupe check.

Remember that the “way it was” isn't always best. Don't fall into the trap of changing things in a new system to match “the way it always was,” says Navarre. When converting K&C, her compromise was to allow attorneys to look at their contact files in a Web-based view and also in a familiar Outlook layout.

Pay as much attention to training as you do to architecture. Navarre and her team used a well-thought-out training process. Training is very difficult and very important, she stresses. “I had a team of people from a variety of departments in the law firm. I talked to several different departments … and asked how they would do the training. We took the 'best of' ideas and implemented them.”

She used two trainers: one from marketing and one from IT. They worked as a tag team with one trainer focusing on the technical and the other “bringing it down to 'how to use it' on the marketing level,” she says.

Keep your sessions small, Navarre cautions. She only trained six people at a time. “The program was that important to us. We wanted no more than an hour of hands-on time.” It took four months for her to completely train for 230 seats. “It took a long time, but this was the best way to do it,” she adds.

There was a definite hierarchy to Navarre's training plan. “We trained the secretaries two or three days before the attorneys. They were the back-up, but we didn't tell the attorneys. You have to have some kind of fail-safe. This motivated people to get the training over with,” she says.

Step two was to train the managing partner and leaders in the firm. According to Navarre, “We picked them so they could go out into the field and the hallways and say 'isn't this really great.'”

“You must train lawyers way differently than staff,” she says. “Key in on the small things. What would they like to know? CRM is all about 'what is the benefit to me.' If you can identify the [attorneys'] pain and take away that pain, then they'll be supportive users. Reassure them they can't mess anything up. It's all in the main database, which they don't have access to.”

Step three was to convert the rest of the firm over to the CRM system. “We took the attorney's contact files the night before, cleaned up their lists, exported them, put them into the CRM database and from the [scheduled training date] forward, they were on the system.”

Navarre dealt with the issue of attorney training no-shows in a simple way: “We explained very carefully that when you sign up for your training day, the night before, your contacts disappear from Outlook. You will have to learn how to use the new software.” Trainees got donuts, coffee, and an hour of instruction. When they arrived for the session, they found their laptops, pre-loaded with the new systems' contact information. No training, no access to the CRM software.

Besides training the secretaries, Navarre's team devised another fail-safe plan. If an attorney didn't show up twice for confirmed training, “we broke the rules and went to their desks and said 'We're going to show you how to use it.'”

After all training sessions, the IT department sent follow-up and satisfaction surveys via the Intranet. The training programs received high marks all around.

Lay the groundwork ' then reinforce it ' for firm-wide buy-in. To complete a truly successful CRM conversion, you need to “get your ducks in a row” first, says Navarre. Script out the benefits to the attorneys and showcase the conversion project this way. She sells it to her lawyers as: “All the information you need ' in one place.”

Getting attorneys to share financial data and matter data ' let alone contact data ' is tough. “You can get the whole big picture in one place if they do,” she says. This depth of detail allows attorneys to determine which other attorneys in the firm have previously worked with a client and can act as resources. “The bigger the firm,” she says, “the larger the space, the less the attorneys talk to each other. [Complete details in the CRM system] help avoid the 'they already have business with us' embarrassing situation.”

“You must make sure people understand this is an enterprise-wide database. The new CRM system is not just for marketing. This is for everyone.” At K&C, says Navarre, “It wasn't until they started seeing information, that many in the firm caught on to this. You have one success at a time. The next thing you know [that success] is at his practice group meeting saying 'You can just go into Interaction and open your own mailing list.' Turn people, one-by-one into evangelists for the system. Broadcast e-mails and coercion won't do it. This must be a benefits-driven pursuit. Make sure you continually stay in contact with converts and evangelists and use their success stories with everyone and everything. The key to continued use and success [with a new CRM system]: proselytize.”

Training is an ongoing process. Once formal conversion training is over, you're bound to have continual requests for help. Train those responsible for CRM to use this mantra, says Navarre: “I'll be able to do this for you, but let me show you how to do it. It'll only take five minutes. Or, at least, let me show your secretary.”

It's important to teach attorneys how to put in their own notes and how to retrieve them. “By empowering the attorneys, you get their buy-in while responding to real life, real world situations they can relate to. It's even as simple as someone asking to print off the mailing list. You teach them how to look at the folder tree, find the mailing list, look things up and search for a name. This avoids paper waste and paging through 20 sheets. The reaction you'll usually get is: 'Oh that's really easy, I can do that,' says Navarre. “Learning one thing leads to the next step: 'What do I want to find out about this person?'”

Don't send out phone tips or interaction reports hoping to tout the benefits of the new CRM system, says Navarre. Telephone training tips aren't helpful, and can be annoying. Instead, she recommends you use internal communications vehicles ' newsletters for example ' filled with case studies on how lawyers are benefiting from the system. This puts useful material “in their words, in their life. 'Here's what one attorney found was helpful. Want to learn how to do this or need more info? Contact the marketing department. We'll be right up.'”

Calm and steady wins the day. “Keep your cool. Listen to complaints.” Says Navarre, respond to all requests and recommendations with: “We'll take that under consideration or mention it for the next upgrade.” It's important to let those newly-converted to a CRM system know they're being heard. And, with time comes contentment: “Give them two weeks and they'll get used to it,” she adds.

CRM Conversion: Round Two

When she first arrived at Bingham McHale ' a mid-sized, full-service, regional firm with 120 attorneys ' last September, Navarre had to set up some basic systems before she could even start down the path to CRM. She created accounting forms that were logical, put into place systems for getting out proposals and brochures and developed a new firm newsletter. The firm's mailing lists were in four or five different software programs, and resided on seven or eight different computers.

Bingham McHale still has no central database, so they set people up as proxies for one another on Outlook. “You can use Outlook for a poor man's CRM. It's not the answer in the long term,” Navarre says. “For the short-term, you can use tabs to store client records about phone calls, spouse's names, journal entries, etc. We did this with an eight-attorney matrimonial law group.” She adds, “even if you're collecting the data in Access and the attorneys are giving the data to someone else to enter, do it. It's one way for Managing Directors to measure successes and be able to run reports.” Just remember, she cautions: when you do convert to a robust CRM system, be sure to check for such data pre-conversion, or you'll lose information.

Currently the different practice groups within Bingham McHale designate an attorney to go to the meetings of other practice groups. These emissaries discuss ongoing activities and cross-sell opportunities. “It's cheaper to do this, than bring new clients in,” she says. “For a mid-sized regional firm, this is actually the bottom line for CRM. Sharing information internally and knowing what people are doing so they can expand work inside and cross-sell. Your CRM database can include board memberships, charities, etc. This is important when trying to make a new contact to pitch business.”

The costs for CRM aren't getting any lower. Four years ago, “I spent $100,00 on software and hardware to deploy Interaction for 230 seats [at K&C],” says Navarre. “That included about 85 attorneys. We got a great deal. Seats were $178/piece the first time, $195 the next batch and then $230.”Last month, when she went shopping for Bingham McHale, the prices were up to $400/seat.

Before says Navarre, you had to ask “Who really needs this?” Except for file clerks without computers and maybe long-time retired partners who don't come in and aren't going to do business development, the answer was often “everyone.” This time around she has to go through employee-by-employee. “I've got 250 seats off the bat, and the price is only going to go up,” she says.

Be conscious of costs, not just in a monetary sense. While Navarre didn't hire anyone to integrate or train for her during the K&C conversion, she would probably decide differently this time around. The K&C conversion took its toll. There was one day of outside consulting (about $3,000), the soft costs for staff time, and then, there was the years' worth of personal commitment from Navarre.

“Marketer to marketer,” she says, “for a year, this was the only thing on my plate. This led to a bad place for me professionally. There was nothing that people within the firm could 'see' that I did. Be careful not to dig a hole for yourself. Be careful how much you commit to [CRM conversion] and make sure it's a visible project.”

Selling CRM's Value

The most sage advice Navarre received on this came from a non-law firm consultant: “Law firms need to start thinking about software investments as infrastructure … a capital investment. It's not an 'oh, is it in the budget for this year?' thing. You need to spread costs across three or four years. If you want to afford the Cadillac, don't put it in the marketing budget, put it in the capital budget. It's an enterprise investment. Most commercial industries know this. Law firms need to get this. Savvy ones do, but many firms don't.”

Experts today say that “good CRM programs aren't for every firm,” according to Jayne Navarre, Chief Marketing Officer for Indianapolis-based, Bingham McHale LLP. “If there's a culture in the firm that's really averse to sharing data, or the way the firm goes about getting new business is very individual-oriented, then you need to decide if the firm is actually ready for it.” Navarre, who's doing the footwork to convert a second firm to CRM, should know.

While with Norfolk, VA firm, Kaufman and Canoles (K&C), Navarre made the practical choice to convert her firm from a contact management system to a full-blown CRM program. Why? It was 1999 and Y2K was fast approaching. Her vendor at the time – CMS Market Sense ' wasn't planning on addressing potential data bug issues. “This meant we were forced into buying a more sophisticated contact management database,” says Navarre. “That's how the conversion transformed into a relationship management project. Our purpose wasn't lofty at the outset. We weren't trying to get a leg up on competition or get ahead of the marketplace. We were just simply responding to a need to switch from one technology to another.” Her firm chose to convert to Interaction.

Lessons Learned On The Way To CRM Conversion

Marketing's role is critical. According to Navarre, it's crucial for the marketing department to play a major role in CRM conversion. “You have to determine upfront who's going to take care of this database. You need someone to get the information in the right places, with a logic that's structured.”

You need a “champion” to keep everything on track. As the voice of experience, Navarre says, “You have to have a smart, logical, person on your staff who will get the file system right the first time. You can't create things and plan to change them retroactively. That's just a nightmare.”

Review, review, then review again. Developing the CRM architecture was “so important and there are so many places you could mess up,” says Navarre. It's “critical to get the information in right the first time. When we built architecture and logic for our folder systems and collected data and determined how it was going to be dispersed, we screwed up on a lot. In retrospect I know how important this is. You need to have foresight.”

“Review, review, then review again. Then bring in a secretary, a paralegal, even an outside person. Show them your logic and see how they would organize the information. Have four, five or six people look at it. You can't go back, and the more you build on, the more unwieldy [the CRM system] gets. It's an architecture – kind of like a family structure. You want to make sure the patriarch and matriarch are in place so that you can build to the grandchildren level,” says Navarre.

Don't plan on getting complete acceptance initially. At K&C, the CRM system actually started out as a mailing list and marketing database. The firm eventually made everyone put their personal contact lists on the system. But, says Navarre, “You have to be a bit flexible. Some attorneys will insist on keeping their private contacts private. We allowed for that. But, for the last year [I was there], more and more attorneys 'bought in,' and put most of their contacts in the database.”

Avoid the garbage in/garbage out syndrome. Clean data is critical to any conversion. Dupes (duplications) can be a real problem. Before conversion, says Navarre, “We bribed the secretaries to go into their attorney's contact files and make sure the data was in the correct fields.” She offered four free movie tickets to each secretary who could show that this work had been completed.

Once the secretaries pre-cleaned the contact files, the firm's database administrator exported them as comma-delimited files into Excel, and then eyeballed them. He then loaded the files into the main database and ran an additional dupe check.

Remember that the “way it was” isn't always best. Don't fall into the trap of changing things in a new system to match “the way it always was,” says Navarre. When converting K&C, her compromise was to allow attorneys to look at their contact files in a Web-based view and also in a familiar Outlook layout.

Pay as much attention to training as you do to architecture. Navarre and her team used a well-thought-out training process. Training is very difficult and very important, she stresses. “I had a team of people from a variety of departments in the law firm. I talked to several different departments … and asked how they would do the training. We took the 'best of' ideas and implemented them.”

She used two trainers: one from marketing and one from IT. They worked as a tag team with one trainer focusing on the technical and the other “bringing it down to 'how to use it' on the marketing level,” she says.

Keep your sessions small, Navarre cautions. She only trained six people at a time. “The program was that important to us. We wanted no more than an hour of hands-on time.” It took four months for her to completely train for 230 seats. “It took a long time, but this was the best way to do it,” she adds.

There was a definite hierarchy to Navarre's training plan. “We trained the secretaries two or three days before the attorneys. They were the back-up, but we didn't tell the attorneys. You have to have some kind of fail-safe. This motivated people to get the training over with,” she says.

Step two was to train the managing partner and leaders in the firm. According to Navarre, “We picked them so they could go out into the field and the hallways and say 'isn't this really great.'”

“You must train lawyers way differently than staff,” she says. “Key in on the small things. What would they like to know? CRM is all about 'what is the benefit to me.' If you can identify the [attorneys'] pain and take away that pain, then they'll be supportive users. Reassure them they can't mess anything up. It's all in the main database, which they don't have access to.”

Step three was to convert the rest of the firm over to the CRM system. “We took the attorney's contact files the night before, cleaned up their lists, exported them, put them into the CRM database and from the [scheduled training date] forward, they were on the system.”

Navarre dealt with the issue of attorney training no-shows in a simple way: “We explained very carefully that when you sign up for your training day, the night before, your contacts disappear from Outlook. You will have to learn how to use the new software.” Trainees got donuts, coffee, and an hour of instruction. When they arrived for the session, they found their laptops, pre-loaded with the new systems' contact information. No training, no access to the CRM software.

Besides training the secretaries, Navarre's team devised another fail-safe plan. If an attorney didn't show up twice for confirmed training, “we broke the rules and went to their desks and said 'We're going to show you how to use it.'”

After all training sessions, the IT department sent follow-up and satisfaction surveys via the Intranet. The training programs received high marks all around.

Lay the groundwork ' then reinforce it ' for firm-wide buy-in. To complete a truly successful CRM conversion, you need to “get your ducks in a row” first, says Navarre. Script out the benefits to the attorneys and showcase the conversion project this way. She sells it to her lawyers as: “All the information you need ' in one place.”

Getting attorneys to share financial data and matter data ' let alone contact data ' is tough. “You can get the whole big picture in one place if they do,” she says. This depth of detail allows attorneys to determine which other attorneys in the firm have previously worked with a client and can act as resources. “The bigger the firm,” she says, “the larger the space, the less the attorneys talk to each other. [Complete details in the CRM system] help avoid the 'they already have business with us' embarrassing situation.”

“You must make sure people understand this is an enterprise-wide database. The new CRM system is not just for marketing. This is for everyone.” At K&C, says Navarre, “It wasn't until they started seeing information, that many in the firm caught on to this. You have one success at a time. The next thing you know [that success] is at his practice group meeting saying 'You can just go into Interaction and open your own mailing list.' Turn people, one-by-one into evangelists for the system. Broadcast e-mails and coercion won't do it. This must be a benefits-driven pursuit. Make sure you continually stay in contact with converts and evangelists and use their success stories with everyone and everything. The key to continued use and success [with a new CRM system]: proselytize.”

Training is an ongoing process. Once formal conversion training is over, you're bound to have continual requests for help. Train those responsible for CRM to use this mantra, says Navarre: “I'll be able to do this for you, but let me show you how to do it. It'll only take five minutes. Or, at least, let me show your secretary.”

It's important to teach attorneys how to put in their own notes and how to retrieve them. “By empowering the attorneys, you get their buy-in while responding to real life, real world situations they can relate to. It's even as simple as someone asking to print off the mailing list. You teach them how to look at the folder tree, find the mailing list, look things up and search for a name. This avoids paper waste and paging through 20 sheets. The reaction you'll usually get is: 'Oh that's really easy, I can do that,' says Navarre. “Learning one thing leads to the next step: 'What do I want to find out about this person?'”

Don't send out phone tips or interaction reports hoping to tout the benefits of the new CRM system, says Navarre. Telephone training tips aren't helpful, and can be annoying. Instead, she recommends you use internal communications vehicles ' newsletters for example ' filled with case studies on how lawyers are benefiting from the system. This puts useful material “in their words, in their life. 'Here's what one attorney found was helpful. Want to learn how to do this or need more info? Contact the marketing department. We'll be right up.'”

Calm and steady wins the day. “Keep your cool. Listen to complaints.” Says Navarre, respond to all requests and recommendations with: “We'll take that under consideration or mention it for the next upgrade.” It's important to let those newly-converted to a CRM system know they're being heard. And, with time comes contentment: “Give them two weeks and they'll get used to it,” she adds.

CRM Conversion: Round Two

When she first arrived at Bingham McHale ' a mid-sized, full-service, regional firm with 120 attorneys ' last September, Navarre had to set up some basic systems before she could even start down the path to CRM. She created accounting forms that were logical, put into place systems for getting out proposals and brochures and developed a new firm newsletter. The firm's mailing lists were in four or five different software programs, and resided on seven or eight different computers.

Bingham McHale still has no central database, so they set people up as proxies for one another on Outlook. “You can use Outlook for a poor man's CRM. It's not the answer in the long term,” Navarre says. “For the short-term, you can use tabs to store client records about phone calls, spouse's names, journal entries, etc. We did this with an eight-attorney matrimonial law group.” She adds, “even if you're collecting the data in Access and the attorneys are giving the data to someone else to enter, do it. It's one way for Managing Directors to measure successes and be able to run reports.” Just remember, she cautions: when you do convert to a robust CRM system, be sure to check for such data pre-conversion, or you'll lose information.

Currently the different practice groups within Bingham McHale designate an attorney to go to the meetings of other practice groups. These emissaries discuss ongoing activities and cross-sell opportunities. “It's cheaper to do this, than bring new clients in,” she says. “For a mid-sized regional firm, this is actually the bottom line for CRM. Sharing information internally and knowing what people are doing so they can expand work inside and cross-sell. Your CRM database can include board memberships, charities, etc. This is important when trying to make a new contact to pitch business.”

The costs for CRM aren't getting any lower. Four years ago, “I spent $100,00 on software and hardware to deploy Interaction for 230 seats [at K&C],” says Navarre. “That included about 85 attorneys. We got a great deal. Seats were $178/piece the first time, $195 the next batch and then $230.”Last month, when she went shopping for Bingham McHale, the prices were up to $400/seat.

Before says Navarre, you had to ask “Who really needs this?” Except for file clerks without computers and maybe long-time retired partners who don't come in and aren't going to do business development, the answer was often “everyone.” This time around she has to go through employee-by-employee. “I've got 250 seats off the bat, and the price is only going to go up,” she says.

Be conscious of costs, not just in a monetary sense. While Navarre didn't hire anyone to integrate or train for her during the K&C conversion, she would probably decide differently this time around. The K&C conversion took its toll. There was one day of outside consulting (about $3,000), the soft costs for staff time, and then, there was the years' worth of personal commitment from Navarre.

“Marketer to marketer,” she says, “for a year, this was the only thing on my plate. This led to a bad place for me professionally. There was nothing that people within the firm could 'see' that I did. Be careful not to dig a hole for yourself. Be careful how much you commit to [CRM conversion] and make sure it's a visible project.”

Selling CRM's Value

The most sage advice Navarre received on this came from a non-law firm consultant: “Law firms need to start thinking about software investments as infrastructure … a capital investment. It's not an 'oh, is it in the budget for this year?' thing. You need to spread costs across three or four years. If you want to afford the Cadillac, don't put it in the marketing budget, put it in the capital budget. It's an enterprise investment. Most commercial industries know this. Law firms need to get this. Savvy ones do, but many firms don't.”