Lawyers, Providers Split over Divorce Sites

On two of the most frequented online divorce sites ' http://www.completecase.com/ and http://www.legalzoom.com/ ' customers click on their state of residence, pay an average fee of $249 and submit to a series of questions about how they want to split their assets and, if applicable, custody of the kids.

They print the documents or receive them by mail within 14 days. Then they file them at their courthouse. Once the judge signs them, they are officially divorced.

Pioneers of the services claim that it is an affordable alternative to exorbitant legal fees. Many divorce attorneys say potential customers ought to beware, because divorce is a complicated process that requires legal counsel.

The amount of divorces means big money is at stake.

In the 44 states that collect data, there were 515 divorces for every 1,000 marriages last year, according to “Mismatch: The Growing Gulf Between Men and Women,” by Andrew Hacker, a professor of political science at Queens College in New York.

Actual providers such as http://www.completecase.com/ and http://www.legalzoom.com/ make divorce available to couples seeking an uncontested divorce in which the parties can work out an agreement by themselves. The sites explicitly state that they are not providing legal advice nor acting as a substitute for a divorce attorney.

“We're not trying to push people out of lawyers' offices,” says Randy Finney, who had a family law practice in Seattle before starting http://www.completecase.com/ in 2000. The site has brokered about 20,000 divorces, most in California, Texas, New York and Florida, he says.

The competing http://www.legalzoom.com/ was started by Brian Lee and Brian Liu. Liu was an associate in the corporate securities practice at Sullivan & Cromwell in New York, and Lee was an associate at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom in New York.

Some traditional divorce lawyers are sharply critical of the online services.

The sites are a pitfall for couples in an emotionally delicate situation, says Jane Lessner of Philadelphia's Fox, Rothschild, O'Brien & Frankel. It might seem like a cheap and easy answer, but no one can realize all the horrors that can happen until they've gone though with it, she says: “Then you're going to need a lawyer to fix it, which is probably far more expensive than getting a lawyer to begin with.”

Liu counters: “Our service is not for everyone. We're looking to attract people who don't have a lot to fight over.”

In an ideal world, everyone should have an attorney, Liu says. But for people who can't afford one, or those who want to represent themselves, he says, LegalZoom is a better alternative than trying to figure it out yourself.

“There is nothing more damaging to a family, and financially damaging” than a bitter divorce, Finney says. He says a couple should take the least contentious approach from the start, since many divorces ultimately go before a mediator pushing them to resolve their differences anyway.

Proponents of dot-com divorce note that the information they provide is already available in similar self-help formats. Law libraries, books and Web sites all provide information about things like pro se representation over custody orders. The online software just makes it easier to use this information, by presenting it in an interactive, step-by-step process where a user can complete the forms online, Finney says.

“Some of those court divorce packets are 100 pages long and contain intimidating forms,” Liu says. “I'm a lawyer, and even I can't figure them out.”

If there is a complicating issue, the user is told to seek legal advice.

Both sites offer a lawyer referral service either online or through a customer service team. According to Finney, some of the lawyers will give legal advice to specific questions through e-mail for a separate fee. (Editor's Note: Providing legal advice online in this manner is not limited to divorce and the idea itself is creating a stir in the legal community.) Completecase also provides links to family therapists and a list of legal resources for each state. “We are not trying to get the idea across that there is a lawyer associated with the site,” Finney says. “But anyone who needs a lawyer can find one.”

LegalZoom takes the opposite approach, clearly associating itself with lawyers. The site features a “celebrity message” and a picture of co-founder Robert Shapiro, a well-known partner at Los Angeles' Chistensen, Miller, Fink, Jacobs, Glaser, Weil & Shapiro.

LegalZoom disputes the idea that its list of marquee legal advisers implies that customers get superior legal services.

“People using the site understand that it is a legal resource,” says Grady. Users have no more expectations than someone using the public law library at George Mason, he says.

“It is not misleading,” says Liu, “but we do want to make sure that our documents and our limited service is the best it can be.” LegalZoom claims its documents are created by lawyers with more than 30 years of experience and provides a customer service team to answer questions. Phone calls to the customer service number were answered by an automated system. It features “special prices” on divorces: $299 for a couple with minor children, $249 without.

“Just $50 more for children?” Lessner chides.

A typical lawyer wouldn't charge much more in a relatively uncomplicated divorce, Lessner says. She notes that the online price doesn't include court filing fees.

George Stern, past president of the 1,600-member American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, takes issue with the use of the term “uncontested” divorce.

“Any divorce that is not litigated is uncontested when it's settled,” says Stern of Atlanta's Stern & Edlin. The forms are shortsighted, he charges, and ignore aspects of divorce, such as tax consequences.

New York divorce lawyer Raoul Felder, a solo practitioner whose celebrity clients have included Elizabeth Taylor and Robin Givens, says he has turned down offers to become an adviser to similar Web sites.

Template forms, he charges, are just “deluding and exploiting” people. “It's like the sick person who calls the doctor and the doctor says 'cough on the phone, I'll tell you what's wrong with you.'”

Dot-com divorce could be dangerous if one person in a relationship has more financial information or personal power than the other, says Sandra Morris, the current matrimonial academy president.

“There is no safety valve with the online method to make sure that people are equally knowledgeable and empowered to negotiate a decision,” says Morris, a solo practitioner in San Diego. However, she says she'd never personally had a case in which people were damaged by a do-it-yourself divorce.

The court is not allowed to review uncontested divorces for fairness, says Judge Dolores Carr, who heads the family law division of the Santa Clara County Superior Court.

About 90% of the divorces in her courts are worked out by the couples without litigation, Carr says. “Once the parties have agreed, we don't look any further.”

The American Bar Association has no policy on legal services over the Internet. It has established a task force to look at the issue, says Will Hornsby, staff counsel to its Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services.

You might think a couple wanting a quick divorce would first stop at a lawyer's office ' or maybe two lawyers' offices, one for each.

Not necessarily.

Their first stop may be the computer. Welcome to the new world of dot-com divorce.

On two of the most frequented online divorce sites ' http://www.completecase.com/ and http://www.legalzoom.com/ ' customers click on their state of residence, pay an average fee of $249 and submit to a series of questions about how they want to split their assets and, if applicable, custody of the kids.

They print the documents or receive them by mail within 14 days. Then they file them at their courthouse. Once the judge signs them, they are officially divorced.

Pioneers of the services claim that it is an affordable alternative to exorbitant legal fees. Many divorce attorneys say potential customers ought to beware, because divorce is a complicated process that requires legal counsel.

The amount of divorces means big money is at stake.

In the 44 states that collect data, there were 515 divorces for every 1,000 marriages last year, according to “Mismatch: The Growing Gulf Between Men and Women,” by Andrew Hacker, a professor of political science at Queens College in New York.

Actual providers such as http://www.completecase.com/ and http://www.legalzoom.com/ make divorce available to couples seeking an uncontested divorce in which the parties can work out an agreement by themselves. The sites explicitly state that they are not providing legal advice nor acting as a substitute for a divorce attorney.

“We're not trying to push people out of lawyers' offices,” says Randy Finney, who had a family law practice in Seattle before starting http://www.completecase.com/ in 2000. The site has brokered about 20,000 divorces, most in California, Texas, New York and Florida, he says.

The competing http://www.legalzoom.com/ was started by Brian Lee and Brian Liu. Liu was an associate in the corporate securities practice at Sullivan & Cromwell in New York, and Lee was an associate at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom in New York.

Some traditional divorce lawyers are sharply critical of the online services.

The sites are a pitfall for couples in an emotionally delicate situation, says Jane Lessner of Philadelphia's Fox, Rothschild, O'Brien & Frankel. It might seem like a cheap and easy answer, but no one can realize all the horrors that can happen until they've gone though with it, she says: “Then you're going to need a lawyer to fix it, which is probably far more expensive than getting a lawyer to begin with.”

Liu counters: “Our service is not for everyone. We're looking to attract people who don't have a lot to fight over.”

In an ideal world, everyone should have an attorney, Liu says. But for people who can't afford one, or those who want to represent themselves, he says, LegalZoom is a better alternative than trying to figure it out yourself.

“There is nothing more damaging to a family, and financially damaging” than a bitter divorce, Finney says. He says a couple should take the least contentious approach from the start, since many divorces ultimately go before a mediator pushing them to resolve their differences anyway.

Proponents of dot-com divorce note that the information they provide is already available in similar self-help formats. Law libraries, books and Web sites all provide information about things like pro se representation over custody orders. The online software just makes it easier to use this information, by presenting it in an interactive, step-by-step process where a user can complete the forms online, Finney says.

“Some of those court divorce packets are 100 pages long and contain intimidating forms,” Liu says. “I'm a lawyer, and even I can't figure them out.”

If there is a complicating issue, the user is told to seek legal advice.

Both sites offer a lawyer referral service either online or through a customer service team. According to Finney, some of the lawyers will give legal advice to specific questions through e-mail for a separate fee. (Editor's Note: Providing legal advice online in this manner is not limited to divorce and the idea itself is creating a stir in the legal community.) Completecase also provides links to family therapists and a list of legal resources for each state. “We are not trying to get the idea across that there is a lawyer associated with the site,” Finney says. “But anyone who needs a lawyer can find one.”

LegalZoom takes the opposite approach, clearly associating itself with lawyers. The site features a “celebrity message” and a picture of co-founder Robert Shapiro, a well-known partner at Los Angeles' Chistensen, Miller, Fink, Jacobs, Glaser, Weil & Shapiro.

LegalZoom disputes the idea that its list of marquee legal advisers implies that customers get superior legal services.

“People using the site understand that it is a legal resource,” says Grady. Users have no more expectations than someone using the public law library at George Mason, he says.

“It is not misleading,” says Liu, “but we do want to make sure that our documents and our limited service is the best it can be.” LegalZoom claims its documents are created by lawyers with more than 30 years of experience and provides a customer service team to answer questions. Phone calls to the customer service number were answered by an automated system. It features “special prices” on divorces: $299 for a couple with minor children, $249 without.

“Just $50 more for children?” Lessner chides.

A typical lawyer wouldn't charge much more in a relatively uncomplicated divorce, Lessner says. She notes that the online price doesn't include court filing fees.

George Stern, past president of the 1,600-member American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, takes issue with the use of the term “uncontested” divorce.

“Any divorce that is not litigated is uncontested when it's settled,” says Stern of Atlanta's Stern & Edlin. The forms are shortsighted, he charges, and ignore aspects of divorce, such as tax consequences.

New York divorce lawyer Raoul Felder, a solo practitioner whose celebrity clients have included Elizabeth Taylor and Robin Givens, says he has turned down offers to become an adviser to similar Web sites.

Template forms, he charges, are just “deluding and exploiting” people. “It's like the sick person who calls the doctor and the doctor says 'cough on the phone, I'll tell you what's wrong with you.'”

Dot-com divorce could be dangerous if one person in a relationship has more financial information or personal power than the other, says Sandra Morris, the current matrimonial academy president.

“There is no safety valve with the online method to make sure that people are equally knowledgeable and empowered to negotiate a decision,” says Morris, a solo practitioner in San Diego. However, she says she'd never personally had a case in which people were damaged by a do-it-yourself divorce.

The court is not allowed to review uncontested divorces for fairness, says Judge Dolores Carr, who heads the family law division of the Santa Clara County Superior Court.

About 90% of the divorces in her courts are worked out by the couples without litigation, Carr says. “Once the parties have agreed, we don't look any further.”

The American Bar Association has no policy on legal services over the Internet. It has established a task force to look at the issue, says Will Hornsby, staff counsel to its Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services.